Comments: Flat Nested Threaded Embedded Oldest First Newest First to vkthakur By shudra14 on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 (EST) there is one more aircraft mig31 which was cpecially desinged to shoot down american bombers and that y it was not built for dog fight and can pull only 5 G it can carry a huge flash dance radar and 6 R37 MISSILES + 4 other air to air missile(r 73/77) but its got unmatched speed and 700 km combat radius at sustained mach 2.4 and 1100 km combat radius at sustained mach 1.9 now just think a mig31 flying at sustained mach 2.4 at 60000 ft carrying 6 R37 missiles and it can cause havoc in enemy air force r37 has range of 300 km + 700 km combat radius of mig31 at sustained 2.4mach =1000 km combat radius at sustained speed of mach 2.4 Reply to this Comment to vkthakur By shudra14 on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 (EST) do u have exact detection range of apg79,80 rbe2 aesa v only know the range of zhuk ae and no other competitor has disclosed the radar range of their aircraft if u have those please post them zhuk ae shown in above picture is zhuk ae with 680 t/r aesa modules and newer radar with 1068 t/r aesa modules will b fitted in mig35 and will have greater range Reply to this Comment mig35 By shudra14 on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 (EST) iaf won't fly any of mrca contender before 2013-14 and thats y apg79 radar maturity is irrrelative and this 4-5 years r more than enough for russians and europeans to catch up enhance their aesa radars capability US threw money like water for aesa tech but other countries don't have that much but they r catched up sooner than expected Reply to this Comment mig35 By shudra14 on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 (EST) indian navy getting 16 mig26k and negotiating for 30 more mig29k and IAF upgrading mig29 so the infrastucture already exists for mig and moreover mig29k will get an aesa or bars29 this improves mig35 position for mig35 v don't need to buy seperate weapons and infrastucture but rafale is favorite u must know that TOT doesn't help much just c japan it had TOT for licence production of f15 and F2 is a big disaster but even now japan is not able to make fighter aircraft on its own if US loses MRCA then US will never b able to sold fighter aircraft in future because PAK FA, MCA,TEGAS,TEGAS MK2 will b coming dowm the line Reply to this Comment Modern Fighter Radars By vkthakur on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 (EST) I have a work in progress knoll which has the ranges of some of the radars. http://knol.google.com/k/vijainder-k-thakur/modern-fighter-aircraft-radars/yo54fmdhy2mq/8 Reply to this Comment irbis e By shudra14 on Thursday, February 19, 2009 (EST) bars29 radar which detect 5^square at 120km is scaled down version of bars radar on mki so there can b scaled down version of irbis e radar because if irbis e detects 3^square at 400km then the scaled down version for mig35 will b able to detect RCS of 3^square at 200 km and thats pretty good against any aesa being offered for MRCA aircraft Reply to this Comment mig35 By ncd19 on Friday, February 20, 2009 (EST) with el/m-2052 radar mig35 will be more lethal than any other and india should go with this combi. Reply to this Comment IAF Should not get carried away By Anadi on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 (EST) Why to waste money on russian products when every body know how bad is the post sales support!! Lifetime maintenance costs are high & coupled with the guaranteed supply of old spare parts(when the contract clause says new! recall Su30 story), widely expected inexcusable delays in deliveries (RAC MIG could not supply 16 Mig-29 in time..supplying 126 in time can be anybody's guess), Low quality of the product (Recently Algeria returned Mig-29 citing low quality of ac) etc. etc. .... India should not get carried away by the quality of participating MIG 35 in Aero shows. Sustaining this showcased quality during mammoth production task of 125 ac is not MIG's know ability. Reply to this Comment mig35 By shudra14 on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 (EST) according to some people nowdays suddenly evenrything russian hardware tanks,aircraft,ships,subs,missiles,helicopters v have are piece of junk and they should be garbaged immidiately and bring in american stuff thats what they want to say but yes despite nuke deal america has not given a single gram of nuclear fuel to us while 2000 tons of nuke fuel deal done with russia but never ever ask nuke subs from america they will kick ur A** Reply to this Comment Digression By Anadi on Thursday, February 26, 2009 (EST) Unnecessarily getting upset Shuda! Why to digress from the real issue.? Is it false that RAC supplied old & used spare parts to Su-30 manufacturing units in HAL (that also happenned in the first batch of supplies itself!) This was reported in the classified reports by the defence establishment. The report further went on to highlight "Even after repeated remideres the things did not come to a change". The other point I highlighted in my prev entry- Algerian Air Force rejected the recently manufacture MIG 29s. Can u counter that with ur nuclear stuffed arguments?? I do not think any exper would buy your opinion? Be realistic, Product on showcase is fantastic but who knows about 126 manufactured units spread over 5 years?? And last but not least- I never advocated the US planes, Look at other partipents also - SAAB & Rafale. Reply to this Comment mig35 By ncd19 on Thursday, February 26, 2009 (EST) yes we face problem with russian fighters spare parts but now mig 35 will be built in india only first 18 will be imported its 100% transfer of tech. Reply to this Comment to anadi By shudra14 on Thursday, February 26, 2009 (EST) no one including US or european companies r able to provide 126 aircraft in 5 years and TOT question its a big issue with US weapons and then y everyone saying US weapons come like black box just c how many typhoons and rafales r in service with french and royal air force till now and while rafale was inducted in 2000 and typhoon was inducted in 2003 and u r thinking of providing 126 jets in just 5 years but v have inducted over 100 su30mki in 6.6 years and most favorite buy will be rafale algerian mig problems r between russia and algeria, but in india rd33-3 engines and other systems r being made for mig29 upgrading and several other avionics come from other countries and even if russia delivers inferior spares they will be returned till now 4 mig29kub have been delivered to india and they have been inspected by indian high level teem and they did not criticize about aircraft and more mig29k will be ordered each scorpene submarine weighs around 2000 tons and to built and operationalize that sub takes 7 years and this is what happening with indian scorpene submarine french aircraft carrier took 12 years to be operationalize and gorky delay is not that long and ship will have all new systems Reply to this Comment re:Mig35 By Anadi on Friday, February 27, 2009 (EST) You seem to lack the nack to understand the given context!! Spare parts issue highlighted in my prev entry was infact related to su-30 which were "being built in India" at that point of time. Hence your take that MIG-29 shall be built in India thus shall not face repeat of this issue- holds no ground!! Reply to this Comment re: to Anadi By Anadi on Friday, February 27, 2009 (EST) Sadly Indians have accepted inferior deliveries in the past. So one must not read too much in the "Satisfactory results of the inspection" by the so called high level inspection team of IAF Frech's products have been better in quality (may not better equpped in terms of technology) than RAC's. What they offer is of indeed of good quality. Mirage 2000 is the best example. IAF need not create the infrastructure for Rafale since it fundamentally belongs to M2000 design and IAF has the existing infrastructure. Whether Frech Aircraft Carrier is better or inferior to Russian Gorky - is not the issue indian defence ministry facing. The issue is the greed of RAC & limited choices the indians have at the same time. 5 years 6 years OR 7 years We need a reliable vendor and I am afraid RAC's MIG does score much on that front. Reply to this Comment mig29k By shudra14 on Saturday, February 28, 2009 (EST) indian navy going for more mig29ks Reply to this Comment mig35 By shudra14 on Saturday, February 28, 2009 (EST) in kargil war in 2001 only mirage had precision strike capability but since then su30mki,jaguar have precision strike capability and after upgrading mig29 will also have same capability moreover same thing applies for mig35 as v also have mig29s and TOT for rd33-3 for upgrading them and navy going for more mig29ks so infrastucture already exixt for migs and so for rafales but rafale is newer design and is better option Reply to this Comment Bad prospect according to http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com By Anadi on Tuesday, March 03, 2009 (EST) The MiG-29’s biggest weaknesses were short range, engines that produce telltale smoke (very bad in air combat) and lack of true multi-role capability; the MiG-35 largely fixes these issues, and may even add an AESA radar of its own if Phazotron-NIIR can have its new Zhuk-MAE ready in time. Technology sharing and co-production are also considered to be strengths; as one Indian officer put it: “Russians have their problems of delayed projects and unreliable spare supply but they give access to everything, unlike the Americans.” He’s referring to the IAF’s not-so-great experience with India’s existing MiG-29s, which have had maintenance problems in addition to their other deficits. Remaining weaknesses in the MiG-35 bid include:-- Difficulties India is having with Russian firms over the refit of its new carrier, and over its orders for SU-30MKIs. There has also been legitimate speculation about the future viability of the MiG-29 family platform, which has been eclipsed in many ways by the SU-30. Algeria’s canceled $1.8 billion order adds further risk to the platform, which is mostly active via refurbishment programs in Russia, India, and other countries. India has made the MiG-29K its future carrier aircraft, but doubling down to add the MiG-35 would make India the first customer for both variants – neither of which has other sale opportunities on the near horizon. That could be spun as a positive industrial opportunity, but from a cost and risk perspective it’s a negative. I hope it clears the Air Shuda!! Reply to this Comment mig35 By shudra14 on Tuesday, March 03, 2009 (EST) the MiG-29K its future carrier aircraft, but doubling down to add the MiG-35 would make India the first customer for both variants – neither of which has other sale opportunities on the near horizon ---------------------------------------------------- how many countries bought rafale,US air force reluctant to buy more f16blk60 which was sold at the cost of $ 80 million per piece to UAE even mki with irbis e radar would b cheaper than that australia bought only 24 f18e/f even for that they paid over $ 100 million per piece just because as gap filler cuz f35 will get late and they had infrastructure for older f18 even though their ex air chief criticised about the capability of f18e/f by saying that "there is nothing super about this hornet over older" Reply to this Comment mig 35 By ncd19 on Thursday, March 05, 2009 (EST) mr.thakur can el/m-2052 is capable to trak and engage cruise misssle Reply to this Comment mig 35 By ncd19 on Thursday, March 05, 2009 (EST) mr.thakur can el/m-2052 is capable to trak and engage cruise misssle Reply to this Comment Re: mig 35 By vkthakur on Thursday, March 05, 2009 (EST) Generally speaking AESA radars are good for engaging cruise missiles. Going by the proven Israeli expertise with AESA radars the ELTA EL/M-2052 AESA is likely to be good in this area. One of the reasons why AESA is so potent is because, besides scanning and tracking, it can also serve as a data link to the missile, allowing target position to be fed to the missile at extremely long ranges. Reply to this Comment mig 35 By ncd19 on Friday, March 06, 2009 (EST) euro typhoon , f/a 18 and mig 35 are 4.5 g planes and are comparable .now what india has to choose one of them. euro is to costly. F/a 18 yes but technology restrictions Mig 35 spare parts and delivery problem but ready for tot and israel radar best way we should go for mirage2000-5 pls. let me know u r view Reply to this Comment ncd19 By shudra14 on Saturday, March 07, 2009 (EST) bst option will be buy another 70 su30mki or su35bm as these fighters outclass all other mrca contenders in all parameters otherwise there is no need of buying mrca as lca going to be inducted in 2010 and PAK FA IS on horizon $ 10 billion is just for 126 aircraft,if our country buy typhoon,f18,gripen, then there is need for totally different logistic and maintainance infrastucture and weapons and that will cost anohter $ 10 billion as euro and amerikansi infrastrucutre r not so cheap but with rafale and mig35 v have exixting infrastucture mig35 will be even cheaper as v already have infrastructure for mig29 because there is more resemblance in between mig29 and mig35 compared to mirage2000 and rafale exixting weapons for su30mki can be used on mig35 so no buy of weapons TOT FOR rd33-3 engines and also upgrading mig29 and will have upto 46 mig29k option for israeli and european weapons and electronics again don't need to buy extra weapons for mig29k otherwise wich cost in billions Reply to this Comment mig 35 By ncd19 on Monday, March 16, 2009 (EST) v. thakur sir i read in one of the site that mig35 has 11 pylons and aesa radar developed by russia is equal to american aesa and russians are trying to increase aesa radar range upto 300km Reply to this Comment Re: mig 35 By vkthakur on Monday, March 16, 2009 (EST) The MiG 35 lacks range / weapon load efficiency of its western counterparts because Russian engines still do not equal the Specific Fuel Consumption (SFC) of western engines. (When they do, they will be as expensive as the western engines.) I don't have the manufacturer's charts to tell if a MiG-35 will go as far as a Super Hornet with the same weapon load cruising at the same altitude and speed but I strongly suspect it won't. If I am wrong and it does go farther than the Super Hornet, it will do so at a higher cost and with a greater radar signature. Does that matter? Some will say yes and others no. The MiG-35 AESA corresponds to first generation western AESA. Using a higher aperture, facilitated by the larger nose cone of a MiG 35 the radar could achieve greater ranges than the APG/79 (Super Hornet) or APG/80 (F-16IN) but the high radiated power will announce the MiG 35's presence in the skies at even longer ranges to the enemy fighters' passive radar warning sensors. Without the LPI (Low Probability of Intercept) frequency hopping and other measures of the APG/79 the Russian AESA would serve as a lighthouse announcing its own presence in the sky. Reply to this Comment mig 35 By ncd19 on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 (EST) sir, as per ur comment i think we indians are foolish to buy more mig 29 for navy . for ur second comment on radar i m not satisfied f 22 will have more powerfull radar then zuku and elta so more radiation. pls. comment Reply to this Comment Re: mig 35 By vkthakur on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 (EST) The APG 77 (Raptor) and APG 79 (Super Hornet) AESAs use Low Probability of Intercept (LPI) techniques which make it difficult for a Passive Warning Radars (PWR) to identify the nature of radiation illuminating the target aircraft as a threat. Reply to this Comment to vkthakur By shudra14 on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 (EST) sir , HAL is making rd33-3 series engines at the price of $ 250 million with TOT and russians don't ask so many questions over that now according to this each rd33-3 engine cost $ 2.1 million and if the older rd33 engines can be used till now the newer rd33-3 engine is much better and has 4000hours of life and 1000 HOURS MEAN TIME BETWEEN FAILURE HAL bought 40 engines f404 for LCA and that cost $ 6 million per engine and according to this f414 must be more costly and so r ej2000,m88-3. so these f414,ej2000,m88-3 cost no less than $ 8 million per piece so one can buy 4 rd33-3 engines at the cost of single f414,ej2000,m88-3 and total life of 4 rd33-3 engines would be 16000 hours and this is much more than the life of single f1414,ej2000,m88-3 so this is like less pay less u get, more pay more u get morover mig35 has better thrust/weight ratio and if f18,mig35 carrying similar payload and siumilar altitude mig35 pull that payload faster than f18e/f Reply to this Comment aesa By shudra14 on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 (EST) by the way what is the actual detection range of apg79,only russians telling ranges of their radars,moreover mig35 has much lower RCS than older mig29 moreover LPI is not only a aesa radar can provide but also it can be added to PESA radars like adding "seduction modes" to PESA,it can be done even to BARS on mki low probability of intercept of aesa radars works much better with stealthy airframes where the aircrafme RCS is much lower than non stealthy airframe and LPI OF AESA provides addtional stealth TO that now f18e/f must have external stores and and its airframe is not stealthy either(only frontal RCS is low when flying clean compared to mig35 frontal RCS )and that gives away enough RCS to be dtected by mig35 radar and even though apg79 has LPI but is airframe is not stealthy and that gives away reveals its position Reply to this Comment mig 35 By ncd19 on Monday, March 23, 2009 (EST) 90 mig 29 grounded . indian gov. is worried . this news has definetly effected mig 35 in mmrca race. their technology could have been easly available to hal if it has won the race which can be used for tejas and other future aircraft. but now again we have to think for french and u.s planes any comment from your side Reply to this Comment Re: mig 35 By vkthakur on Monday, March 23, 2009 (EST) Such precautionary groundings are not unheard of and I doubt it will impact MiG's MMRCA bid. The MiG 29 has been flying for over 20 years and cannot be fundamentally flawed. Though MiG corp is floundering at this stage, it is unlikely Russia will let it go down. I think the problem is with the Russian approach of funding their weapon development with foreign money. It is an approach that does not inspire confidence. Should Russia be banking on India to bail out MiG corp? As far as transfer of technology is concerned either the Russians renege on their commitments or HAL isn't capable of absorbing much. It is probably a mix of the two. We have been manufacturing MiGs since I was at school, which was a very long time ago. :-) What has HAL to show for it in terms of design capability, for aircraft or aero-engines. Even after the legendary Dr Kurt Tank designed the HF-24 for them they could not come up with a follow up design. Heck, they could not even propertly manufacture the aircraft he designed for them. The aircraft was lumped on the IAF in the late 60s which was very happy to get rid of it eventually in the early 80s. HAL had no problem with the IAF dumping the HF-24 because they were onto 'manufacturing' Jaguars. And what did they have to show from that endeavor? What manufacturing technology did they absorb? Are we dealing with recalcitrant aircraft manufacturers reluctant to transfer technology or a technology black hole called HAL? I don't know. Reply to this Comment What is going to happen to MMRCA Competition ? By silod on Thursday, March 26, 2009 (EST) This is really surprising that Ministry of Defence says that it will not be until 2014 that the chosen Aircrafts be indcuted in IAF? Why are we so laidback in our approach of making our defence forces strong? Why are the politicians and Babus involved in this activity when they do not understand even the basic of Avionics. I think, they should confine themselves in allocating the money only. Let the guys who are going to fly the chosen Aircrafts decide what is best for them. One of my close friend flies Mirage-2000 and he tells me that this is an exceptional Aircraft. These are the pilots who make the IAF and not our Politicians and Babus. I hope good senses prevail on MoD this time and they allow these daredevils to decide what is best for them. Reply to this Comment To andi By Ajsingh on Friday, June 26, 2009 (EST) Get your facts right Mig35 is the best 4++ generation fighter around ....american stealth is just a bubble depends on rcs chaping and radar absorinng material ...true stealth is plasma stealth...so back to the point ...Mig 35 IS THE BEST BET because first the infastructure is already in place ...we are also operating the MIG 29 mig 35 has AESA radar and the uniquely designed Optical Locator System (OLS), relieves the aircraft from relying on ground-controlled interception (GCI) systems and enables it to conduct independent multi-role missions. plus the aesa radar has better detection range than the apg 80 and apg 72 radar ...oh usa s not offering us any aesa radar btw they are still debating it ...and MIG 35 is based on proven airframe...f-35 lacks that ...it has serious critisism about the airframe ... Reply to this Comment

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